Talk:Dog training

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dog training article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 2 months

Dogs Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and commonly referred to as "dogs" and of which the domestic dog is but one of its many members, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DogsWikipedia:WikiProject DogsTemplate:WikiProject DogsDogs articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Dogs To-do:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Dogs:

Recent changes patrol: members can review the recent changes list to be aware of improvements or vandalism.
Expand and improve citations: Akita (dog), American Bully, Artois Hound, Azawakh, Barbet (dog), Basset Fauve de Bretagne, Bavarian Mountain Hound, Bearded Collie, Beauceron, Berger Picard, Black and Tan Terrier, Black Norwegian Elkhound, Border Collie, Border Terrier, Bouvier des Ardennes, Bouvier des Flandres, Braque du Bourbonnais, Brazilian Terrier, Briquet Griffon Vendéen, Brittany (dog), Bullenbeisser, Bull Terrier, Ca de Bou, Cairn Terrier, Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Campeiro Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Chilean Terrier, Chow Chow, Colombian Fino Hound, Corsican Dog, Cretan Hound, Croatian Sheepdog, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Danish Spitz, Dingo, Dobermann, Dogue Brasileiro, Dunker, East Siberian Laika, English Cocker Spaniel, English Foxhound, English Toy Terrier (Black & Tan), Erbi Txakur, Estonian Hound, Estrela Mountain Dog, Finnish Lapphund, Flat-coated Retriever, French Bulldog, Galgo Español, Gaucho sheepdog, German Hound, German Shepherd, German Wirehaired Pointer, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Gordon Setter, Great Dane, Greek Harehound, Griffon Bruxellois, Guatemalan Dogo, Gull Dong, Halden Hound, Hamiltonstövare, Hanover Hound, Havanese dog, Hokkaido (dog), Hovawart, Ibizan Hound, Icelandic Sheepdog, Indian Spitz, Irish Setter, Irish Terrier, Irish Water Spaniel, Istrian Coarse-haired Hound, Jagdterrier, Jämthund, Kai Ken, Karakachan dog, Karelian Bear Dog, Karst Shepherd, Keeshond, Kokoni, Kooikerhondje, Koolie, Kuchi dog, Kuvasz, Labrador Retriever, Large Münsterländer, Lucas Terrier, Magyar Agár, Miniature Bull Terrier, Miniature Fox Terrier, Mongrel, Mountain Cur, Northern Inuit Dog, Norwegian Elkhound, Norwich Terrier, Old Danish Pointer, Old English Bulldog, Old English Sheepdog, Pastor Garafiano, Pastore della Lessinia e del Lagorai, Patterdale Terrier, Pekingese, Perro Majorero, Peruvian Hairless Dog, Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen, Pharaoh Hound, Plummer Terrier, Plott Hound, Polish Greyhound, Porcelaine, Portuguese Water Dog, Pudelpointer, Rajapalayam dog, Rat Terrier, Saarloos wolfdog, Sabueso Español, Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, Šarplaninac, Schipperke, Serrano Bulldog, Shikoku dog, Skye Terrier, Sloughi, Slovak Cuvac, Small Münsterländer, Smithfield (dog), Smooth Collie, South Russian Ovcharka, Spanish Water Dog, Standard Schnauzer, Swedish Vallhund, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Terceira Mastiff, Thai Bangkaew Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan spaniel, Tornjak, Weimaraner, Welsh Hound, Welsh Terrier, West Siberian Laika, Westphalian Dachsbracke, Xoloitzcuintle, Xigou
Stub class articles in need of development: Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Argentine pila dog, Armant (dog), Assyrian Mastiff, Banjara Hound, Billy (dog), Braque Dupuy, Bruno Jura Hound, Bulgarian Scenthound, Ca Rater Mallorquí, Calupoh, Campeiro Bulldog, Can de Chira, Cane Paratore, Cantabrian Water Dog, Chortai, Córdoba fighting dog, Denmark Feist, East European Shepherd, English Shepherd, Faroese Sheepdog, Gończy Polski, Grand Griffon Vendéen, Gull Dong, Hanover Hound, Hygen Hound, Japanese Terrier, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Kunming dog, Kurdish Mastiff, Levriero Sardo, Mahratta Hound, Majorca Ratter, Maneto, Markiesje, Molossus (dog), Montenegrin Mountain Hound, Rampur Greyhound, Romanian Mioritic Shepherd Dog, Sapsali, Sarabi dog, Schweizer Laufhund, Segugio Maremmano, Segugio dell'Appennino, Sinhala Hound, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Taigan, Tatra Shepherd Dog, Tazy, Toy Bulldog, Treeing Cur, Vikhan Sheepdog, Westphalian Dachsbracke, White Shepherd
Suggested Featured Articles due for re-assessment: Beagle (2007)
Suggested Good Articles due for re-assessment: Swift fox (2008); Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (2009); Clumber Spaniel (2009); Russian Spaniel (2009); Sussex Spaniel (2009)
Requested images: Briquet de Provence, Denmark Feist, Erbi Txakur, Jeju dog, Kaikadi (dog), Kars dog, Koyun dog, Levriero Sardo, Liangshan Dog, Perdigueiro Galego, Segugio dell'Appennino, St. Hubert Jura Hound, Tarsus çatalburun, Tibetan Kyi Apso, Vikhan Sheepdog, Villanuco de Las Encartaciones

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 9 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ajeffries.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Worldwide view?

I don't want to immediately flag anything, but this article seems very culturally biased towards a European/white perspective. Did Native Americans train dogs? If so, to what extent? I'll be honest, the whole article seems like a mess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.183.144.120 (talk) 01:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The lead starts "Dog training is the application of behavior analysis." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talk • contribs) 14:35, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bad sourcing/doesn't fulfill Wiki rules

This article uses Millan (Cesar) as a source, but Millan is in fact not a dog trainer nor a dog behaviorist at all. He is an actor. I find it very disconcerting that content using him as a source is allowed here but content using actual experts is removed. Please consider removing anything related to Cesar Millan as he has no reputable/professional dog training or behavior credentials. 47.7.11.178 (talk) 02:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Someone has just added in Millan references. If you check the references the information cited is not on the pages of the book given as the source. Canis5855 (talk) 03:57, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this is bad sourcing. Cesar Millan is not formally trained in dog training or dog behavior and his opinion should not be treated as if he is a reliable source. Moreover, as Canis5855 mentioned, the "source" somebody provided doesn't even contain the quote given in this article. I've added the failed verification tag for now while we sort this out because I'm not sure whether I should remove the entire quote without first discussing it. Glitchhiker (talk) 07:22, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I found it in the article after a second look, but my assertion that Millan is not a reliable source still stands. I've changed the tag to reflect that. Glitchhiker (talk) 07:45, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stanley Coren "alpha wolf" updated quotation

Stanley Coren is quoted in the dominance-based training section as saying "You are the alpha dog... You must communicate that you are the pack leader and dominant." While this is correctly attributed, in 2010 he wrote in his own column on Psychology Today^[1]:

"The first research on wolf behaviors seemed to support the idea of a rigid, military-like canine social hierarchy, usually supported by physical confrontations which ultimately established a leader—the "alpha wolf"—who maintains his leadership through force and intimidation. Unfortunately, later research would show that this is an artificial and erroneous view of canine social organization.

David L. Mech, who is now a senior research scientist for the U.S. Department of the Interior, was one of the first people to study wolf behavior in the wild. In his 1970 book, he was influenced by earlier ideas, including those of Lorenz, and referred to the pack leader as the "alpha wolf." Looking back 40 years later he has come to doubt the usefulness of this concept. He now maintains that the label is wrong because it implies that the wolves fought to determine dominance." ... "The reason that all of this is important is that it tells us, (regardless of concerns about the amount of force used in training) that Cesar Millan's technique, and that of many other trainers who use a military-like concept of canine social hierarchy as the basis of dog training and problem solving, is based on a false premise. It is a holdover from German military service dog training at the turn of the last century, and generalization from outdated wolf research based on artificial packs of captive wolves.

Perhaps it is time to revise our dog training and obedience concepts to something along the ideas proposed by advocates of Positive Training. In that view, controlling the dog's behavior is more a matter of controlling the things that a dog needs and wants, such as food and social interaction, rather than applying force to achieve what the science suggests is an unnatural dominance over the dog."^[2]

I think it's important that his modern views should be included as well since they contradict his views from 2001, but I'm told Psychology Today is usually not a reliable source. In this instance, I feel that it is reliable in this context to be sourced and quoted alongside the current 2001 source to give readers the full picture, and that Coren no longer stands by the "alpha wolf" theory. Glitchhiker (talk) 08:31, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Coren, Stanley. "Canine Corner". Psychology Today. Retrieved 6 February 2022.
^ Coren, Stanley. "Canine Dominance: Is the Concept of the Alpha Dog Valid? | Psychology Today". www.psychologytoday.com. Retrieved 6 February 2022.

Orphaned references in Dog training

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Dog training's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "sciencedirect.com":

From Shock collar: Ziv, Gal. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1558787817300357 Journal of Veterinary Behavior. Volume 19, May–June 2017, Pages 50-60. The effects of using aversive training methods in dogs—A review. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jveb.2017.02.004
From Dog behavior: Jacobs, Jacquelyn A.; Coe, Jason B.; Pearl, David L.; Widowski, Tina M.; Niel, Lee (2017). "Factors associated with canine resource guarding behaviour in the presence of people: A cross-sectional survey of dog owners". Preventive Veterinary Medicine. 161: 143–153. doi:10.1016/j.prevetmed.2017.02.005. PMID 28268035. S2CID 207419404.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Coren, Stanley. "Canine Corner". Psychology Today. Retrieved 6 February 2022.

[2] Coren, Stanley. "Canine Dominance: Is the Concept of the Alpha Dog Valid? | Psychology Today". www.psychologytoday.com. Retrieved 6 February 2022.

[1]

[2]